And deny you the chance to make the joke? I’m not heartless.
partial_accumen
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Joined 2 years ago
Cake day: June 15th, 2023
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it’s not impossible that it goes from a category 3 to a hurricane in the span of twelve hours to a day
Cat 3 is already a hurricane isn’t it? Cat 1 is too. Below that would be “Tropical Storm” and below that “Tropical Depression”, right?
But you knew about the Cat 3. Would you still have expected the middle class guy from the house down the street to come and knock on your door (and that of dozens of your neighbors in trailers) telling them that the Cat 3 had upgraded to something worse while he’s trying to drive his family out of town?
My one experience with hurricane evacuation was when I was visiting Florida. Notices of danger are literally all over the place. Businesses close, grocery stores empty out, and THE TRAFFIC! Something like 12 hours before the expected arrival the government even authorizes all interstate highways to be unidirectional. What this means is that both sides of the highway are traffic flow away from the storm. Yes, half the drivers are driving “the wrong direction” down at highway speeds away from the storm. It was kind of fun actually legally driving the wrong way down an Exit ramp onto the highway going the wrong direction. Fun fact I never knew, there are a whole bunch of “WRONG WAY” signs on the back of the regular interstate highway signs. We never see them because we’re going the right way. Also, the road reflectors in the separating the lanes are ALL RED. Again, you only see them if you’re driving the “wrong” direction, which we legally could during the evacuation.
The racism is still VERY much there, but it is structural often, harder to point to, that is my point.
Or in the case of our conversation impossible to point to.
I had a huge reply typed up citing sources on both the ease of which there is to find examples of structural racism against people of color in the USA, and the lack of any sources on the same for those of Irish heritage in the USA but I deleted that post . You say its there, can’t point to any scholarly work or even anecdotal examples. I’m not sure what to do with that. I find no sources to learn of this from, and you aren’t able to provide any yourself. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist. I’m not saying you’re making this all up, but I’m also not seeing any corroboration anywhere. There’s nothing to act on. Nothing to learn. Nothing to change.
If there is injustice in our society, I want to do my part in working against it, but there’s nothing to even start with on on modern day discrimination against Americans of Irish descent.
If you have any more to offer on this, I’m interested, but otherwise it feels like we’ve exhausted the topic to the ends of our collective knowledge.
Structural Racism look it up
I’m well aware of it, and I gave you three examples of how structural racism discriminates in my first post to you. Your answer was:
You won’t see structural discrimination against Irish Americans as easily perhaps as other more obvious examples of US racism but it is there
Even if I go on a deep search about the definition of structural racism, I won’t have your personal knowledge about which you are saying occurs to those of Irish heritage. That’s why I’m asking you. If you have seen it, have experienced, it or even been told about how it has affected those of Irish heritage, I’d think this should be easy to have an example. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist. Far from it! I’m saying I don’t have your knowledge and experience as it relates to Irish aspects and I’m interested in learning it.
I can barely give you an example off the top of my head of a white person acting racist towards a black person in front of me, but that doesn’t mean the landscape around me wasn’t shaped by a racism towards black people…?
Really? I can think of a lot off the top of my head and I’m pasty white guy:
- “driving while black” is a thing. Law enforcement will target people of color driving citing minor infractions to pull them over that they frequently or almost always ignore if the driver is white.
- I’ve personally witness people in middle management make racist jokes in the workplace on company time.
- I’ve seen a black man that was an extremely qualified professional in his field give a professional assessment on a situation which was ignored. Yet a white person (who was barely even able to be qualified) gives the exact same assessment and it is accepted as fact.
I’ve lived in tornado alley for much of my life. During tornado season everyone watches the weather, and has a plan on what they are going to do. I would find it VERY strange if my neighbor suddenly started banging on my door telling me a storm was coming. I would absolutely already know from the same sources they know. Most of us are hyperaware of our dangerous weather. I imagine that point is the same for those that live in hurricane areas.
Because you said the “got out” then it sounds like it was a hurricane. If a tornado is closing in, the worst thing you could do would be try and “get out”. So what’s even more confusing if this was a hurricane, those have days worth of notice. Everyone in that trailer park would have known a hurricane was coming days before and could either choose to leave, go to a hurricane shelter, or decide to stay put. The reality is that trailers are the worst form of protection during bad weather, tornadoes or hurricanes.
What exact action you would expect from the middle-class family that wouldn’t make them racist/elitists from you post? Physically knocking on doors of dozens of trailers saying “a storm is coming” days before they leave?
You’re speaking in abstracts, which there is certainly a separate welcome conversation on, but how are those of Irish descent treated differently? Can you give me a concrete example, even anecdotal, where someone of Irish descent in New England was treated worse simply because they were of Irish descent?
It’s interesting because virtually none of that anti-Irish sentiment exists on the West Coast.
I’ll echo this from the midwest. Thats why this post about discrimination against the Irish was so surprising to me. Chicago in particular goes all out on St Patrick’s day, and having any sort of Irish heritage is celebrated and cache that day.
but structurally being Irish American is considered to be barely white, more like poor white which is barely white among elite circles
I’m not trying to pick a fight, but interested in more info. What practical ways does this manifest for these folks? Are they subject to additional law enforcement scrutiny, denied job opportunities, or historically discriminated against in mortgage lending? Or are there other ways I’m not thinking of?
2·2 days agoIf you lived back then, chances are you’d just straight up remember more things without needing to go look them up again. But, you might also just remember what book you found it in.
Its more the second than the first, knowing where to get info:
- Want to know the industrial products of Turkey? Almanac.
- Who said “Give me a lever long enough and I can move the world” Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations book.
- Synonyms for the word “apology”, thesaurus book. Basic history of the Navajo people, Encyclopedia.
- Definition (or spelling!) of “analgesic” - Merriam Webster Dictionary.
- What happened in town on March 3rd 1967 - Microfilm/microfiche at the library
- What model of refrigerator is the most reliable? - Consumer Reports magazine backissues at the library
I have wondered if this is part of the reason why ancient orators were apparently capable of reciting hours of dialog from memory.
I’d be curious for this answer too. However I think this is more of the “benefits of a classical education” which meant that teaching materials were limited, and you may find your entire class for the year is memorizing famous speeches from men that society deemed worthy.
Hmm interesting. But it means I don’t have a magical “damn it I forgot, let me google it” option.
So true! That is the benefit to today. But keep in mind, no one else would have it either.
If I lived in that time, I’d have to write every piece of knowledge I want to remember down on a notebook, so I don’t forget and have to go borrow that same book again.
Nah, it didn’t really work like that. You had a handful of reference books at home for general knowledge. So when you got home you could crack open your encyclopedia or almanac to answer most basic questions. Like this one:
Here’s the partial table of contents from a much later edition:
For topics/questions that exceeded this, it would be a trip to the library and potentially a conversation with a reference librarian on where to find the detailed info. If you had to order a book from another library it could take days or weeks to get your answer. This required effort is why knowledge was more prized. If you had the knowledge it was a reflection of your effort to get it. Or back in the 80s, those that were self conscious would call you a “nerd” for knowing more than they did as a defense.
Or keep a whole bookshelf of knowledge, in which case, that would be taking a lot more space than a wikipedia.zim file + .epubs
Yes, this is what many did. Yes having much more knowledge at your fingertips is much better.
Before the internet, I don’t think foreign press critical of your country’s government, especially if it’s an authoritarian country, would’ve been permitted.
You’d find this on Shortwave radio. Without going into the science of it, with a Shortwave radio, you could hear news reports from the other side of the planet. I could easily regularly turn in the BBC when I was on the other side of the Atlantic.
But I think getting a VPN is far easier than smuggling foreign books and newspapers, and word-of-mouth news is just a long telephone game.
The danger on this front is today’s surveillance society. If you had managed to smuggle in books or newspapers into your home, the only way they would have been found is if law enforcement would have entered your home and searched it enough. Realistically that would be a lot of effort to try to do that on a society. Its possible, certainly, but very difficult. Today, even with your VPN, a zero-day exploit or DNS hijack could let them watch in real-time everything you’re doing without even tipping you off.
I’m you from the previous generation. I lived too far away from the library to reach it on bike, but parents worked near it so they’d bring me books on their way home and returned by read ones at the same time. For me those games were written in BASIC for Commodore 64 along with rampant game piracy. Our made up pen-and-paper games were also made up but were mostly based on Cold War and Middle East scenarios.
Having lived that childhood, I can give you some insight.
“Damn, how did people even get information?”
Believe it or not, most people simply didn’t. For the average low engagement person they would get news/information from the 3 or 4 TV channels available on Over-The-Air TV. Those that wanted to be informed about current events would actually plan to be in front of a TV somewhere to catch the 30 minutes of evening news (well 30 minutes national and usually 30 min local). There was some news on the radio, and possibly the largest news source was newspapers (usually only your locally published on) and monthly magazines. For most people that was it! For some they didn’t read the newspaper and didn’t watch/listen to the news.
However, if you wanted more news/knowledge/info, there was more to be had, but you had to actively go places and seek it out.
like I suddenly imagine myself, there, as a child, and not having access to this seemlingly unlimited access to information that I currently have
Libraries were the “unlimited access to information”, and there was a lot of it. Unless it was a really small branch library, every single public library building you walked into had more books/magazines/newspapers than you could read in your entire lifetime, and there were literally hundreds of libraries available to you across the USA. Private libraries, such as colleges, would have even more. It felt like unlimited access to information at the time.
and not to mention, entertainment content.
Honestly, we were much more creative. When you’d already read the couple of new magazines you got that month, nothing on the 3 or 4 channels of TV interested you, and the 4 or 5 radio stations were playing songs on heavy rotation you already knew, you went looking to create your own entertainment. This could be playing sports, writing, art, playing games you made up with friends, trying new bicycle/skateboard tricks, etc. At least a third of people would be people that created things, making songs, building models, woodworking, fixing/upgrading cars, growing (gardening/livestock), cooking, etc.
So like, that feeling of feeling like I’m in the past (as in: I’m imagining myself being in the past), but not have access to the internet just gives me a very bad feeling.
It was actually the opposite. If you spent the time to search out information, which took skills like knowing where to look in a library, you’d be thought of as smart. Example: “How the heck did you know off the top of your head that that capital of Hungary was Budapest?!”. For someone in the USA, to know they, they would have had to sought out a world map/encyclopedia/almanac, know that Hungary was a country, know that is in Europe, and know how to find the capital. Same with general knowledge on any topic such as history of the Roman Empire or US Civil War. If you had an interest, you could find the information, but it took work. People knew that, so if you could show you had the knowledge it was appreciated and came with a certain amount of respected.
You would have been just fine.
Answer to what? The question I asked you? I don’t have an answer.
Your prior question. If you don’t have the answer, how can you claim that there is one?
You’re assertion is that humanity, left to its own devices, would cause chaos and death (I don’t disagree). Yet, you also say that a sufficient AI could make changes to humanity to make it less so. If the humans didn’t make those changes themselves, then they have lost their autonomy. Yet you say that isn’t so.
If the answer is as true as you say, why the are you being so coy with the answer?
No need to be coy. If you have the answer (that you haven’t already shared) then don’t let me stop you. Explain.
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” – Benjamin Franklin
You’re still thinking in very small human scales.
I read enough speculative sci-fi to know the idea you’re talking about.
An immortal Artificial Super Intelligence could spend centuries, hundreds of generations or more, subtly tweaking al thel various cultures toward a more harmonious coexistence.
You’re saying that like its a good thing. For all of humanities faults, I’ll take them over humanity being controlled by something else. R. Daneel Olivaw tried and it wasn’t a great ride for humanity.
is white light “white” because that’s what our start emits?
I’m going to say “no”. Just because humans only see in the “visible spectrum” doesn’t mean that all life on Earth does. There are creatures that can see in infrared spectrum such as:
- Snakes like pit vipers, including boas and pythons
- fish such as cichlids, goldfish, and salmon
- Mosquitoes
- vampire bats
There are also creatures that can see way past the other side of the “visible spectrum” into ultraviolet
- Bees like Bumblebees and Honeybees
- Butterflies
- Reindeer
- birds like European Rollers
- Scorpions
- Hedgehogs
- even dogs and cats
So as you can see from these lists its not just a specific genus or species. Many of our mammalian cousins can do this. Given that many other species have evolved this ability, it just wasn’t evolutionarily needed for humanity to survive.
Those certain aspects which cause intolerance, would need to be changed. Nothing more.
Nothing more? You’re handwaving away massive changes needed to many groups including erasing or altering their culture or identity. I’ll keep playing your game though.
Okay, so here’s a statement from a Muslim scholar on the doctrine in the Qurʾān:
God is one and unique; he has no partner and no equal. Trinitarianism, the Christian belief that God is three persons in one substance, is vigorously repudiated.
So one side believes in one god, while the other believes in three persons in one substance.
Both have extreme groups within each religion that believe only their way is correct, and will use violence when needed to prove it. Which one gets changed, and who decides who gets their belief system altered so they aren’t intolerant?
This I completely recognize and agree with, but that wasn’t the premise posted. The premise was “Irish American”. I’d never heard that as a modern day form of discrimination, and that’s why I was questioning it.
Right again, but again, that wasn’t the premise posted.