Elections are a compromise. Democracy by nature is compromise. FPTP sucks, but it’s the system we had, so you either have to work with it, or burn shit, and not nearly enough nonvoters or 3rd party voters are out here burning enough shit to convince me that they are actually against the system. So in reality they were just naive idealists who couldn’t stomach voting for the best viable candidate, and saddled the rest of us with that orange shit-stain instead.
But your candidtaes are voted for in a primary. If you want better candidates they need people like you to organise and put in the work to get them on the ballot in the first place.
That’s what I’m saying! We need people to care more about the quality of our candidates. But the DNC kicks out anyone who is “scary socialist”. Do I think they can’t change? No. And I’m not even a non-voter btw. I’m just saying, to get through to these people, blaming them for the outcome isn’t going to get them to vote blue.
I’m just saying, to get through to these people, blaming them for the outcome isn’t going to get them to vote blue.
Will asspatting them for the outcome get them to vote blue?
The broader issue is to establish purity politics as morally and socially unacceptable rather than “Just politics :)” that you look over to invite people to the barbeque in spite of.
“I acted in favor of your murder!” shouldn’t be acceptable just because the person who did it claims to wear a coat of red paint.
There’s some good in what you’re doing, which is creating awareness to the issue of what’s going on currently. But this blaming of a very small group of people, using hindsight mind you, isn’t helping us get any further from fascism.
Is it really hindsight if it’s exactly what I was saying before it happened, and what anyone with half a working eye could see was going to happen?
Ultimately, it is, from an objective standpoint, a small proportion of the US that thinks like this. A larger amount is influenced by it.
But we also work in the communities we are in - in Lemmy, this thinking remains widespread. I mean, fuck, look down this comment thread.
Ultimately, my goal is more to highlight that allowing fascism because you really want to teach the shitlibs a lesson is not acceptable. Not ‘not acceptable’ in the sense that it’s a bad thing to do, though it is. “Not acceptable” as in “people who do it should not be treated as friends or comrades”.
I grew up in a conservative area. It’s exactly the same dynamic as conservatives with their liberal friends. Their liberal friends will always, continously asspat them for their ‘economic anxiety’, and the conservatives will keep getting worse - because there are no social consequences. Not a cold shoulder, not even a rebuke. But the fact is, voting for my death, and the death of millions of others, out of some sense of internal purity of the soul, is not the action of anyone who should be welcomed into decent society. It must be highlighted that this is absolutely a grotesque and vile (in)action, and that the cold shoulder is the appropriate response - not giving them asspats for their ‘moral principles’ in murdering millions.
When people suffer no pushback from their social circles - or worse, encouragement - for their actions, they begin to see their actions like a game. It’s part of the reason why the GOP has radicalized so much since the 90s - liberals give no pushback, not on the national stage, and not in their communities. You’re still invited for the barbecue after voting to murder John’s trans cousin. You’re still invited to the Christmas dinner after voting to deport Tim’s wife. “It’s just politics”. And for an online community which rejects that particularly grotesque charade, they seem eager to repeat it if “It’s just ‘left’ politics”, with everything from supporting Uyghur genocide to enabling a Trump victory.
There’s no difference between the two - other than that left (or ‘left’) politics are more rare in America’s meatland. And it shouldn’t be passed over that that’s so.
Ultimately, my goal is more to highlight that allowing fascism because you really want to teach the shitlibs a lesson is not acceptable. Not ‘not acceptable’ in the sense that it’s a bad thing to do, though it is. “Not acceptable” as in “people who do it should not be treated as friends or comrades”.
Is the goal to rally everyone to vote blue with this strategy? How about for the next elections, we look into what leftists’ issues are, and primary someone that will actually win? Because this is a failure of a plan before it’s even going to happen. I want fascism to end as much as you do, but if we are actually serious about ending it, we have to put down our petty squabbles and actually unite against it.
Is the goal to rally everyone to vote blue with this strategy?
There’s no guarantee that the next election will even involve the Dems as a major party. The goal is to isolate and reduce the prevalence of people abstaining or making protest votes instead of serious strategic decisions because they know they’ll get feted from their core online circlejerks, and asspats from their broader online circles. Can’t fix the former, but we can fix the latter.
How about for the next elections, we look into what leftists’ issues are, and primary someone that will actually win?
And what happens when the leftists decide one of their pet issues is more important than winning, like they did in 2024? What happens if that pet issue is one that isn’t popular amongst the general electorate?
We should work to put leftist candidates in, but no candidate is going to be perfect - even Mamdani already has folk on the left attacking him - it must be emphasized that purity testing is not the way forward.
I want fascism to end as much as you do, but if we are actually serious about ending it, we have to put down our petty squabbles and actually unite against it.
… so how is asspatting leftists for refusing to unite against it going to help, again? This whole situation is predicated in part on leftists refusing to unite with the anti-fascist coalition candidate with the furthest left platform in my lifetime, and probably since fucking Truman, against a literal Nazi candidate. If your opinion is that we need unity, encouraging self-righteous leftists in playing purity politics seems pretty fucking counterproductive.
“It only helps the Nazis if you criticize the people who enabled the Nazis!”
Jesus Christ. So many commenters here are determined to defend the feelings of purity politics voters who literally delivered us to the fucking Nazis and will do so again at the first opportunity.
Not the fucking liberal democrats who had the power and responsibility to get people to vote for them. It’s the minority of leftists who are truly the problem in this country, and pug Jesus will never shut the fuck up about it.
!When people suffer no pushback from their social circles - or worse, encouragement - for their actions, they begin to see their actions like a game. It’s part of the reason why the GOP has radicalized so much since the 90s - liberals give no pushback, not on the national stage, and not in their communities.!<
This is the pushback, you nonce. The Dems think they get the undying loyalty of the left because there is no other option, and so they ignore all their issues and sabotage us again and again. Like a game to win. The liberals GET no pushback so we ended up here, with two right-wing parties.
Actually, from my understanding, they want the same thing as before. For the party to LISTEN TO ITS CONSTITUENTS RATHER THAN DONORS. It’s a shockingly simple proposal that, if implemented before the election, could have prevented this situation.
By not voting in the general, rather than running as or supporting progressive alternatives in primaries, you just taught the party the people are fascist
The assumption here is the left is so powerful that according to PugJesus we single handedly cost the democrats the election. Yet curious the Democratic party consistently shows it will make no effort to appeal to this large powerful group to get elected.
It’s almost like the left isn’t the problem, and I’d wager a majority did still vote for Harris like me.
What actually got Trump elected was the independents and morons who aren’t into politics at all and just vibe voted for Trump. How do I know? I actually talk to people who voted for Trump and many see they were duped by the vibes and brocasts.
Not to mention the large scale effort on the right to get people kicked off the ballots among many other voter suppression tactics.
But let’s not focus on any of that, let’s lefty bash and cause more infighting, that seems like a great idea!
Blaming people for not voting for shit candidates isn’t going to accomplish what you’re hoping for, just saying.
Yeah, people deserve to vote for a party they actually support.
I’m quite glad where I live has an MMP system, and there is likely to be a party that represents most views.
Elections are a compromise. Democracy by nature is compromise. FPTP sucks, but it’s the system we had, so you either have to work with it, or burn shit, and not nearly enough nonvoters or 3rd party voters are out here burning enough shit to convince me that they are actually against the system. So in reality they were just naive idealists who couldn’t stomach voting for the best viable candidate, and saddled the rest of us with that orange shit-stain instead.
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But your candidtaes are voted for in a primary. If you want better candidates they need people like you to organise and put in the work to get them on the ballot in the first place.
This election cycle there was no “getting your candidate on the ballot” though. No for president anyway.
That’s what I’m saying! We need people to care more about the quality of our candidates. But the DNC kicks out anyone who is “scary socialist”. Do I think they can’t change? No. And I’m not even a non-voter btw. I’m just saying, to get through to these people, blaming them for the outcome isn’t going to get them to vote blue.
Will asspatting them for the outcome get them to vote blue?
The broader issue is to establish purity politics as morally and socially unacceptable rather than “Just politics :)” that you look over to invite people to the barbeque in spite of.
“I acted in favor of your murder!” shouldn’t be acceptable just because the person who did it claims to wear a coat of red paint.
I’m curious - what do you think I’m trying to accomplish?
There’s some good in what you’re doing, which is creating awareness to the issue of what’s going on currently. But this blaming of a very small group of people, using hindsight mind you, isn’t helping us get any further from fascism.
There’s no good in what OP is doing. They’re a CIA asset doing anti-left propaganda and scapegoating.
Is it really hindsight if it’s exactly what I was saying before it happened, and what anyone with half a working eye could see was going to happen?
Ultimately, it is, from an objective standpoint, a small proportion of the US that thinks like this. A larger amount is influenced by it.
But we also work in the communities we are in - in Lemmy, this thinking remains widespread. I mean, fuck, look down this comment thread.
Ultimately, my goal is more to highlight that allowing fascism because you really want to teach the shitlibs a lesson is not acceptable. Not ‘not acceptable’ in the sense that it’s a bad thing to do, though it is. “Not acceptable” as in “people who do it should not be treated as friends or comrades”.
I grew up in a conservative area. It’s exactly the same dynamic as conservatives with their liberal friends. Their liberal friends will always, continously asspat them for their ‘economic anxiety’, and the conservatives will keep getting worse - because there are no social consequences. Not a cold shoulder, not even a rebuke. But the fact is, voting for my death, and the death of millions of others, out of some sense of internal purity of the soul, is not the action of anyone who should be welcomed into decent society. It must be highlighted that this is absolutely a grotesque and vile (in)action, and that the cold shoulder is the appropriate response - not giving them asspats for their ‘moral principles’ in murdering millions.
When people suffer no pushback from their social circles - or worse, encouragement - for their actions, they begin to see their actions like a game. It’s part of the reason why the GOP has radicalized so much since the 90s - liberals give no pushback, not on the national stage, and not in their communities. You’re still invited for the barbecue after voting to murder John’s trans cousin. You’re still invited to the Christmas dinner after voting to deport Tim’s wife. “It’s just politics”. And for an online community which rejects that particularly grotesque charade, they seem eager to repeat it if “It’s just ‘left’ politics”, with everything from supporting Uyghur genocide to enabling a Trump victory.
There’s no difference between the two - other than that left (or ‘left’) politics are more rare in America’s meatland. And it shouldn’t be passed over that that’s so.
Is the goal to rally everyone to vote blue with this strategy? How about for the next elections, we look into what leftists’ issues are, and primary someone that will actually win? Because this is a failure of a plan before it’s even going to happen. I want fascism to end as much as you do, but if we are actually serious about ending it, we have to put down our petty squabbles and actually unite against it.
There’s no guarantee that the next election will even involve the Dems as a major party. The goal is to isolate and reduce the prevalence of people abstaining or making protest votes instead of serious strategic decisions because they know they’ll get feted from their core online circlejerks, and asspats from their broader online circles. Can’t fix the former, but we can fix the latter.
And what happens when the leftists decide one of their pet issues is more important than winning, like they did in 2024? What happens if that pet issue is one that isn’t popular amongst the general electorate?
We should work to put leftist candidates in, but no candidate is going to be perfect - even Mamdani already has folk on the left attacking him - it must be emphasized that purity testing is not the way forward.
… so how is asspatting leftists for refusing to unite against it going to help, again? This whole situation is predicated in part on leftists refusing to unite with the anti-fascist coalition candidate with the furthest left platform in my lifetime, and probably since fucking Truman, against a literal Nazi candidate. If your opinion is that we need unity, encouraging self-righteous leftists in playing purity politics seems pretty fucking counterproductive.
Well your current path only helps the nazis, so maybe try something different.
“It only helps the Nazis if you criticize the people who enabled the Nazis!”
Jesus Christ. So many commenters here are determined to defend the feelings of purity politics voters who literally delivered us to the fucking Nazis and will do so again at the first opportunity.
The left enabled nazis - PugJesus
Not the fucking liberal democrats who had the power and responsibility to get people to vote for them. It’s the minority of leftists who are truly the problem in this country, and pug Jesus will never shut the fuck up about it.
Buddy, you’re doing their work for them. Divide and conquer. Right now you are the nazi.
This is the pushback, you nonce. The Dems think they get the undying loyalty of the left because there is no other option, and so they ignore all their issues and sabotage us again and again. Like a game to win. The liberals GET no pushback so we ended up here, with two right-wing parties.
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Honestly, you seem like a right-wing agitator trying to foment division among the left.
That is exactly what OP is doing. Likely on a CIA or NSA payroll. Or whatever three letter agency pays online trolls and propagandists.
This is like the fifth time today you’ve accused someone of that.
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Actually, from my understanding, they want the same thing as before. For the party to LISTEN TO ITS CONSTITUENTS RATHER THAN DONORS. It’s a shockingly simple proposal that, if implemented before the election, could have prevented this situation.
By not voting in the general, rather than running as or supporting progressive alternatives in primaries, you just taught the party the people are fascist
“please stop supporting Israel murdering children in Gaza” “no” “Ok we’re not voting for you” The people are fascist
Shut the fuck up
There literally weren’t primaries you moron, they annotined Harris
That’s wouldn’t be unusual if Biden was incapacitated for any other reaaon
How do you know the lesson Dems learn will be what you want, and not “oh I guess the people are fascists”
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The assumption here is the left is so powerful that according to PugJesus we single handedly cost the democrats the election. Yet curious the Democratic party consistently shows it will make no effort to appeal to this large powerful group to get elected.
It’s almost like the left isn’t the problem, and I’d wager a majority did still vote for Harris like me.
What actually got Trump elected was the independents and morons who aren’t into politics at all and just vibe voted for Trump. How do I know? I actually talk to people who voted for Trump and many see they were duped by the vibes and brocasts.
Not to mention the large scale effort on the right to get people kicked off the ballots among many other voter suppression tactics.
But let’s not focus on any of that, let’s lefty bash and cause more infighting, that seems like a great idea!