• dastanktal@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    7 days ago

    Have you not watched that Democratic party sacrifice the progressives on the altar of so-called progress?

    Can’t grow a progressive Wing if it’s constantly stopped out by the DNC. 🙄

    It’s wonderful you understand we’re in a class war. It’s idiotic how you think electoralism is a major front in the class war. You know how I know this? Because groups have already tried the strategy you’re talking about in history and specifically failed to save themselves from fascism. See Germany in the 1900s.

    You say “not voting” has cost us the rights of women lgbtq minorities and other people, I say pushing a strategy of harm reduction for the Electoral it for the past 20 years is the reason that those rights were lost.

    • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      7 days ago

      Lol.

      I keep scrolling waiting for you to do something other than complain. I’m waiting for you to present some kind of path forward.

      The closest you’ve gotten so far is implying that we need new political parties, while apparently being completely unaware that we are NOWHERE NEAR a viable 3rd party in this country. That would take YEARS of one putting in the hard work and winning local/state elections and getting MORE THAN ZERO members in the House and Senate.

      You’re over here whining about the Democrat party, trying to get people to not vote for them, when there is no viable alternative and absolutely, positively, 100% will not be one by the next election.

      You want to wipe the board clean instead of reforming an already super established party. That’s childish and won’t work.

      • dastanktal@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        7 days ago

        LOCALLY ORGANIZE

        I don’t think I can be much clear about the solution. Do you think voting in 2026/2028 is going to save us? Thats funny. How about we focus on making it to 2028.

        I don’t want people to waste their time volunteering with the Democrats when they could be working with one of the other hundreds of local organizations that actually uplift there community instead of just burn the averages voters goodwill

          • dastanktal@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            7 days ago

            You know there’s an efficient use of time and then there is a waste of time right?

            • InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              7 days ago

              Yeah, which is why I am saying to put some of that protest energy into voting as well. We need to follow though to get policy. Otherwise the protest was just a hangout.

              • dastanktal@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                7 days ago

                But we don’t get to vote on policy. Not often. Not on the federal level and very rarely in a way that matters locally.

                Our Representatives don’t represent us and our government does not represent the majority will of the people and hasn’t regardless of which party is in office.

                I’m not saying that people shouldn’t vote I’m saying that people shouldn’t waste time convincing others to vote or who to vote for.

                • InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  7 days ago

                  I’m not saying that people shouldn’t vote I’m saying that people shouldn’t waste time convincing others to vote or who to vote for.

                  I just don’t care about people trying to organize and won’t waste my time helping others beyond my most intimidate eye sight

                  Fuck bro can you imagine if we had a SC that could rule that the overturning of RoeVWade is not allowed? Or that the shipments of more ammo to Israel needs to be stopped. Privileged people like you are not in the front line, but you are abandoning those who are.

                  • dastanktal@lemmy.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    7 days ago

                    I just don’t care about people trying to organize and won’t waste my time helping others beyond my most intimidate eye sight

                    Yep. You caught me. Local organization helps with none of these things and you’re right I should waste more of my time trying to convince people to vote in a system that won’t represent them or fix anything.

                    Really you should take this attitude to a Native American reservation watch how it plays out. I’m sure they won’t have a ton of reasons why they refuse to vote in the US elections. And I’m sure they won’t take any offense to you claiming that they’re in a privileged position to not vote.

                    we had a SC that could rule that the overturning of RoeVWade is not allowed

                    Yes Supreme Court that acts like that would be nice. Too bad that’s literally never existed in the United States for its entire history.

                    You know what else would be nice if Bernie got elected in 2016 but over in reality we have to deal with what’s here. Not idealism land where if you logic hard enough you can get all the apathetic voters to vote and every voter who’s going to vote third party to vote for the party of your choice.

                    Your mistake is thinking that people are rational creatures that will always make a decision based on that rationality when in fact we are irrational creatures that contain a multitude of contradictory opinions.

                    Reality is recognizing that there is no magic wand to make apathetic voters come to the table and your pleas about minority safety will fall on deaf ears. Americans are an incredibly selfish bunch.

                    Call me privileged all you want you have no idea about my life who I am what I’m protecting or what I need to do to survive. It’s almost like one should say that you need to check your privilege

    • InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      7 days ago

      You say “not voting” has cost us the rights of women lgbtq minorities and other people, I say pushing a strategy of harm reduction for the Electoral it for the past 20 years is the reason that those rights were lost.

      I addressed this:

      Did you read where I wrote this:

      Its not blue no matter who. Its blue when harm reduction is one of the limited choices and working to expand the progressive wing where possible.

      Can’t move past harm reduction if you are not growing the progressive wing where possible. Either in the dem party or spinning of a serious 3rd party. Libertarian, as gross as they are, have made their ideas main stream in the Rs. Again tankies discouraging voting is abandoning a key front in the [class] war and rolling over for fascists.

      Can’t grow a progressive Wing if it’s constantly stopped out by the DNC. 🙄 And you never will grow it because you don’t show up to grow it.

      It’s idiotic how you think electoralism is a major front in the class war.

      And i think its idiotic you are abandoning people you could be helping.

      • dastanktal@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        7 days ago

        Yeah you didn’t actually address my point that the DNC squashes Progressive politics so that there isn’t a progressive wing and there will not be one in the DNC. It’s fun to pretend though but you did actually address this concern though.

        It’s not my fault that you lack creativity and are unable to imagine a way of helping people that doesn’t involve electoralism and think that’s abandoning people 🙄

        • InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          7 days ago

          Yeah you didn’t actually address my point that the DNC squashes Progressive politics so that there isn’t a progressive wing and there will not be one in the DNC. It’s fun to pretend though but you did actually address this concern though.

          Because you don’t vote. And we won’t have a third party win local elections because tankies discourage taking action to win those elections.

          • dastanktal@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            7 days ago

            Ooo. Finally we got a reason.

            Explain how me not voting, which you have no idea if I did or not, fails to push Progressive politics in the dnc?

            I also didn’t say that you shouldn’t vote only that you shouldn’t waste your time with electoralism. Meaning that people should vote for who they want regardless of the screeching the liberals do. And that they shouldn’t waste their time doing anything with those parties since local organizations are far more important than political parties.

            Here in fact I got a great Counterpoint to this idiotic line of thinking. In 2020 we had the largest voting turnout we have ever had And end it up With one of the most institutional governments the Democrats have ever given us. How come that didn’t result into the progressive Wing that you keep talking about? We also have record-setting votes during the midterms 2022. I wonder what happened to those progressives. It’s not like we have a foreign lobbyist organization that does its best to ensure that progressives can’t get anywhere. It’s also not like the powers that be in the DNC do their absolute best to ensure that progressives can’t get anywhere.

              • dastanktal@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                7 days ago

                I see there’s no response to me completely dismantling your point about creating a progressive Wing in the DNC.

                Can we stop pretending electoralism is important? As I said multiple multiple times in this thread people should be spending their energy locally organizing with local organizations that do things like Feed the Homeless, or help those in a poverty situation.

                  • dastanktal@lemmy.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    7 days ago

                    Yes we spent so much time and energy in electoralism to just for the Democrats to give the election to Trump 👍

                    What a wonderful use of our time, energy, and money.